Now I'm as much of a Ron Paul faggot as any of the Penn-brand libertarians hanging around this joint, but this cat is flat out lying about the direction of P&T's criticism of pollsters.
If there's one thing we've learned from Penn and his crowd, it's stay away from the Michael Moore brand of taking folks out of context and lying to progress your agendas.
This guy, and lots of other Ron Paul fanatics, have decided it was a good idea to find a video in which people (in this case Penn & Teller) talk well deserved shit about the media's pollcentric attitude of politics, then completely ruin it by claiming that it states something it doesn't.
Now don't get me wrong, I completely agree that the polls in America are bullshit, as do most of you, but pretending that this video is specifically defending Ron Paul is just a propaganda clusterfuck which harms the names of Penn and Teller and the name of Ron Paul. Notice that not once do P&T even mention Ron Paul in this video.
This type of good intentioned lie is the very thing that Penn Jillette has argued against time and time again, and someone trying to use these tactics to get people to vote for a candidate that even I am planning on throwing my political cent into, is still wrong.
Ron Paul voters or not, I ask you all to write to this cat in youtube messaging or whatever you feel like throwing at him. We can't have the name of Ron Paul or any other political candidate fucked with by a liar. This isn't the only one, there's tons more videos to dine on 'fore the night is through.
"No end justifies the means of lying." -Penn Jillette
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Tuesday
User Karma: 3
Re:"Always tell the truth as you see it" -Penn Jillette - 2007/12/02 12:03Um, what? Some wanker's mediocre logic and misleading title are a "huge problem"? Since when?
Here's the guy's logical progression: -Ron Paul would have polled higher if the polls were "issue based rather than name recognition based" (not actually in the video, but rather in the About This Video sidebar)
-Polling (particularly that done by Frank Luntz) is bullshit, per P&T.
-Frank Luntz says Hillary is the front runner according to polls.
-Fuck you, Frank.
The video does defend Ron Paul and his low poll numbers, the only misleading thing about it is that since it doesn't mention Ron Paul specifically, it also defends anyone else who polled badly.
And really, who cares if one candidate or another is smeared directly or indirectly. They're still advocating the value of government force, and therefore evil.
A more interesting question is why you're willing to take a quote by Penn as true without proof. Why should someone speak the "truth as you see it"? What value is there in a lie simply because someone believes it's true?
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Snerd
User Karma: 20
Re:"Always tell the truth as you see it" -Penn Jillette - 2007/12/02 17:34I'm a Penn-brand libertarian, and I wouldn't vote for Ron Paul. I'm not voting for any of the presidential candidates... unless Doug Stanhope actually runs like he talked about.
That's a video I did, expressing my disgust with the capuchin-lookin' man that is Ron Paul.
...
Now I feel nostalgic for Monkey Tuesday...
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Hadessniper
User Karma: 1
Re:"Always tell the truth as you see it" -Penn Jillette - 2007/12/02 18:32Didn't Penn say a few times that hes pro-states rights on abortion and anti-public schools? I've been wondering where Penn is standing on Ron Paul, He seems to be right up Penn's ally, but I could very well be wrong on that. God I wish we still had a daily dose of Penn. lol
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maf
User Karma: 41
Re:"Always tell the truth as you see it" -Penn Jillette - 2007/12/02 19:38As Penn Radio progressed Penn seemed to become more and more anarcho-capitalist. So, if he did become full blown anarcho-capitalist, I hope he is consistent with his ideals and supports no candidate.
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Snerd
User Karma: 20
Re: - 2007/12/02 21:20Hadessniper wrote: Didn't Penn say a few times that hes pro-states rights on abortion and anti-public schools? I've been wondering where Penn is standing on Ron Paul, He seems to be right up Penn's ally, but I could very well be wrong on that. God I wish we still had a daily dose of Penn. lol For the Don Imus thing alone...
I didn't agree with Penn on everything... just most everything. I'm sure that if I were confronted with good evidence contrary to my beliefs, yet right on the money with Penn's, I'd change.
I think once he heard about the constitutional amendments that Ron Paul strived for, Penn probably would've dropped Paul like a hot potato.
But I guess we won't know exactly how he stands unless he appears on TV for something. Could someone contact Audrey and see what Penn thinks about Ron Paul? Maybe he could write an essay for some magazine and get some money or something; just as long as we could settle this.
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Pentomino
User Karma: 12
Re:"Always tell the truth as you see it" -Penn Jillette - 2007/12/03 02:36Stanhope ran, but dropped out.
I'd like to think I didn't get my opinions wholesale from penn while he was on the air, though what I like to think has nothig to do with what's true.
Rather, one thing Penn always did was look at some aspect of the situation that nobody else was even acknowledging.
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TheJukeBottleCasino
User Karma: 6
Re:"Always tell the truth as you see it" -Penn Jillette - 2007/12/03 04:07stanhope would've gotten my vote in a heartbeat, then I'd probably be complaining about some dumb youtube video with his name stitched to the title
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Snerd
User Karma: 20
Re: "Always tell the truth as you see it" -Penn Jillette - 2007/12/03 13:17TheJukeBottleCasino wrote: stanhope would've gotten my vote in a heartbeat, then I'd probably be complaining about some dumb youtube video with his name stitched to the title Worst case scenario, clips from his stint on "The Man Show." That's his only low point.
And, nah... I wasn't gonna vote for him because he was on Penn's show... although that is how I heard about it. As far as social issues go, he'd definitely end the war on drugs if he could and I'm sure gay marriage would go through if it could pass.
And obviously, the guy wouldn't have anything to hide. Have you heard his material?
I might write him in anyway. Beats the chocies we have so far.
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Ian
User Karma: 1
Re: "Always tell the truth as you see it" -Penn Jillette - 2008/01/20 02:58For those that missed it, Penn endorced Ron Paul on Stern (Stern likes Paul too). Can't say I'm too surprised, I always figured Penn would be pro-Paul.
For the record I'll be voting for Paul, even though I disagree with his immigration policy (however, his is far less offensive than the neo-cons, Ron Paul is AGAINST building a fence).
He's anti-war on drugs, anti-taxes, pro-guns, anti-government health care, and totally for the seperation of church and state... guess I don't see why anybody here wouldn't want to vote for him. The 9/11 truthers that are for Ron Paul sure are fucking annoying though!
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Toddahhhh
User Karma: 6
Re: "Always tell the truth as you see it" -Penn Jillette - 2008/01/20 12:41Ron Paul is a creationist, and that's really sticking in my craw.
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maf
User Karma: 41
Re: - 2008/01/20 13:02Ian wrote: For those that missed it, Penn endorced Ron Paul on Stern (Stern likes Paul too). Can't say I'm too surprised, I always figured Penn would be pro-Paul.
For the record I'll be voting for Paul, even though I disagree with his immigration policy (however, his is far less offensive than the neo-cons, Ron Paul is AGAINST building a fence).
He's anti-war on drugs, anti-taxes, pro-guns, anti-government health care, and totally for the seperation of church and state... guess I don't see why anybody here wouldn't want to vote for him. The 9/11 truthers that are for Ron Paul sure are fucking annoying though!
You've got to be kidding? He endorsed Ron Paul? That really, really disappoints me. If Penn lived his values he would not endorse any political scum sucking bag of shit no matter how much freedom they wanted to benevolently bestow upon us.
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Ian
User Karma: 1
Re: - 2008/01/20 17:44maf wrote:
You've got to be kidding? He endorsed Ron Paul? That really, really disappoints me. If Penn lived his values he would not endorse any political scum sucking bag of shit no matter how much freedom they wanted to benevolently bestow upon us.
It's not the first time he's done it. He and Teller have each voted for the Libertarian Party canidate the last 4 elections.
I'm all with you on how the politicians are scum. However, Ron Paul isn't your regular politician. Take a gander at his voting record: http://www.ronpaul2008.com/about/ Scroll to where is says, "has never voted to raise taxes."
The only way to get freedom back in this country (aside from a violent overthrow of the government, which I'm all for...) is voting for freedom loving candiates -- which usually are on third party tickets.
Come on, it's not like he endorced Hillary Clinton or something... Ron Paul's a nut just like we are.
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maf
User Karma: 41
Re: Penn and EZ on Stern - 2008/01/20 22:17Ian wrote:
The only way to get freedom back in this country (aside from a violent overthrow of the government, which I'm all for...) is voting for freedom loving candiates -- which usually are on third party tickets.
Come on, it's not like he endorced Hillary Clinton or something... Ron Paul's a nut just like we are.
I have to disagree completely. Saying that the only way to get freedom back to our country is through elected officials is like saying the only way to get rid of slavery is to get a new slave master. Other people do not give me my freedom. I give myself freedom, thought my voluntary interaction with other human beings. Freedom will come when we stop validating the state, god and all of our abusive, unchosen relationships. We will never see true freedom if we do not start acting free. But, I understand. It's hell of a lot easier to vote than to actually do something about your own life.
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Ian
User Karma: 1
Re: Penn and EZ on Stern - 2008/01/20 23:09I'm all for acting free, and believe me I agree with your philosphy -- however, the state is validated in our society, and along with acting free we must stop the government from defacing our freedoms. How can you act free with big government down your neck? To the extreme, it's hard to "act free" sitting in a jail cell. Voting (when there are actually decent people running) is a great way of preventing such a situation. So yeah, I side with Penn on this one, I'm voting, sorry if that apparently pisses you off. I respect your choice not to.
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Ron Paul's a nut just like we are.