Penn.Jillette.Radio.Show.2007.02.13 - 2007/02/14 08:58 This thread discusses the Content article: Penn.Jillette.Radio.Show.2007.02.13

It started off a bit slow. The whole anarco capitalism thingy was a bit nutty. Don't we at least need courts? When Sweeney got into talking about raising an adopted daughter I found that really interesting.
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Re:Penn.Jillette.Radio.Show.2007.02.13 - 2007/02/27 00:51 Actually, private arbitration would be more efficient because market forces would demand it to be. Because of the nature of coercive monopolies, i.e. government, courts have become almost useless when people seek restitution. If we learned anything throughout human history, it is that monopolies are inefficient at everything except creating incentives for war. Thinking that we can shrink the State to the point where it's only courts is completely contrary to the incentives that come through taxation. The State becomes bigger because there is no incentive by politicians to make it smaller.
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Re:Penn.Jillette.Radio.Show.2007.02.13 - 2007/02/27 01:15 Yeah, that's probably the only thing I disagree with Penn on. Here's something I wrote on my blog recently about this issue:

I want to correct the common misconception about Objectivism’s support of laissez-faire capitalism. Basically Ayn Rand said that businesses should be free to do what they please and individual rights should be protected by the government. This means that businesses would be unregulated BUT held responsible if they violated any individual rights in the course of doing business. I hate it when people discredit Objectivism solely on its support of laissez-faire capitalism, because there is more to it than just support of the classic amoral laissez-faire capitalism. In the Objectivist philosophy there is still protection from harmful business activity with a lack of regulation. Objectivism assumes businesses will not violate individual rights, but holds businesses responsible if they do, without any preemptive regulation. Integrate a protection of individual rights to the capitalist equation and laissez-faire capitalism works perfectly.
http://www.miniatureamericanflags.com/?p=318
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Re:Penn.Jillette.Radio.Show.2007.02.13 - 2007/02/27 01:29 Restitution in civil court is one thing, but what exactly do you do with say, a murderer or a rapist? Who arrests the guy? Who proves his guilt? Okay, so the victim's family or some private charitable organization (Americans Against Rape) hires a private detective to gather the evidence instead of the feds. What's to stop the rapist from hiring his own people to cover his tracks? Right now it's obstruction of justice, but if there's no universally upheld law, the question becomes "whose justice?". What if the rapist has better financial means than the victim?

I suppose one could create an opt-out justice system - if you want police protection and courts, you pay, just like health insurance. In principle, the victim files an grievance, which is investigated by her company, and if their arbitration committee finds the perpetrator guilty, he's contractually obligated to become the company's indentured servant for, say, 20 years. Let's even assume that no company will ever worry about the bottom line more than justice. But what if the perp isn't covered? Where does a private organization get the right to take away his freedom? What if the victim isn't covered, because she's 12 and her parents are poor? Justice for sale is unbecoming of a civilized society.

I don't think anarcho-capitalism is any more tenable than communism - it assumes too many variables will magically vanish, like human nature. Minarchy is a much better principle in my opinion, for many reasons - starting with the fact that it isn't an absolute, but a guideline - as much government as is absolutely necessary and no more.

Parks and streets and sewage treatment can all be privatized. Education likewise. But courts and armies are necessary, and a state is the least unjust way to provide them. Someone's freedom must be trodden on to ensure a working society, and I'd rather it be everyone a little than most not at all and then one or two unlucky bastards bear the brunt of the cost.
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Re:Penn.Jillette.Radio.Show.2007.02.13 - 2007/02/27 01:40 maf wrote:
I hate it when people discredit Objectivism solely on its support of laissez-faire capitalism, because there is more to it than just support of the classic amoral laissez-faire capitalism.

There really can't be any capitalism WITHOUT a government. Capitalism requires property rights, and property rights must be enforced by an impartial entity, or the words "hostile takeover" will take on a whole new meaning. Anarcho-capitalism is a misnomer, really. In reality, companies would just be the equivalents of states, except in place of a democratically mandated constitution, they'd have internal memorandums.

And classical laissez-faire capitalism isn't amoral in the least - it's interfering in non-coercive businesses that's immoral. Pretending that taking someone's money away at gunpoint becomes moral when you're doing it to feed orphans is the worst kind of "ends justify means" immorality.

Disclaimer: I'm not an Objectivist, but I've read my fair share of Rand and think she's right about a bunch of stuff, but makes the same dumb error that every ideologue has always made - being absolutist.
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Re:Penn.Jillette.Radio.Show.2007.02.13 - 2007/02/27 02:36 What is reality without absolutism?
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